Chapter 4 3rd Reich Police Lugers Chapter 5 DDR Deutsche Volkspolizei (People's Police) Lugers a complete catalog of Police Luger Markings The book has . Faded roman numeral ink stampings on the inside cover flap indicate Imperial army, possibly depot origins. He should work on the internal corsage, promote public security, order and tranquility and, above all, give every citizen the opportunity to fulfill his moral duty to exercise his intellectual and physical strength to the full. is unknown. Over all good condition. feared that an expanded police force would become a ready reserve for the Usually when this is done another identification is added. Est price: $3,750 $5,500. It cites Still 1993, page 174, Figure 45a, the below pictured holster is an LOB example of the first style, first pattern, pre 1925 new manufacture Weimar era, unmarked police holster. There is no doubt as to what variation of Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector was used in conjunction with the new 1920s police cleaning rod with brass stopper with, at least, one Weimar era police station as evidenced in Weimar Lugers,1993 page 183, figure 47c by J. It is uncertain how long the holster remained in the pre-1928 first conversion, shortened LP.08 police pattern as the balance of the changes that constitute the second conversion are unique to this holster, starting with the removal of the up-strap, cover flap keeper and brass stud, plugging the cover flap stud anchor hole, and replacing the original artillery up-strap with a non-standard for a police holster, originally black paint/enamel coated metal belt buckle, keeper and strap cover flap closure. Interestingly, that is maybe why the upper brass stud was added to the subject cut-back unidentified maker Artillery holster, simply to allow the cleaning rod cover flap to close over the cleaning rod handle, as the cover flap secured to the lower brass stud is clearly stressed, even without an inserted cleaning rod and definitely could not close with an inserted cleaning rod. Here are the rare Lugers (PHOTOS). There are at least two examples, as of this writing of a cut-back artillery Luger holster, where there is no doubt that a multiple conversion was done for, and specifically assigned to, and marked by the German Police. Lot 0478, Jan 14, 2023. links[4]='http://www.theoldbrigade.co.uk'; In the manual is pictured the P.08 Luger on pages 17 and 26. Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by Opening the loading tool cover flap reveals the original brown leather. Diese Frwgungen mssen die Grundlage fr die Uusbildung des Polizeibeamten bilden. circumference edge, circular collar past the sight block/blade, For the rest, however, there has been a tendency to warn the book in its existing form as far as possible. It should be noted that the World of Lugers Proof Marks 1977 by S. Constanzo, page 108 pictured E/Mg10 eagle is a different style from the subject E/Mg10 eagle. Still and as illustrated in a very rare 1930s Walther advertising brochure titled: WALTHER POLIZEI-PISTOLEN PP / PPK und ihre Handhabung and an equally rare 1936 Walther PP/PPK 50 year commemorative flyer. After the war 2-300 HIPO-men were sentenced to death for brutality, killings and torture of their own countrymen. Einwohnerwehr had a membership of hundreds of thousands and was ----------------------------------------------------------- page 12 ----------------------------------------------------------, Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. It is not very important if the delivery of these pistols took place just before the 1st of January 1930, or just after (invoiced by Mauser).". We received more rescued Lugers from Canada this week! Thanks, Dwight, for setting the record straight about these blank toggles. Remnants of the original artillery holster body up-strap attachment are visible; the cover flap keeper strap and the brass stud were removed and the hole was plugged in the cover flap and a belt buckle/strap closure, as stated above was added. Spain controlled two small mountainous sections of Northern Morocco that were separated by a bay. Lugers! The 1928 Instruction for the Police of the State of Prussia, (V.f.d.P.) For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. . Take care and thanks for the quick response. Each faded green soft cover Lehrbuch or text book was printed using the early offset printing process consisting of 231 pages of Weimar era Police "Guidelines". The instruction manual is pictured and other interesting details are described in. During the Weimar Era, German police power remained decentralized. First Mass-produced Semi-automatic Pistol. TBLAP by Grtz/Sturgess, 2011 & 2012, VIII, on pages 1262-1264 and pictured on page 1262, Fig. $500. As to the luftamt I do not know, but the Army HZa's still equipped the Luftwaffe and Waffen SS, so it makes sense. Signed & Numbered by both authors. 2 St 16 - item 16 of the 2nd patrol unit. You might remember that I was looking for the destination of 2,760 Luger pistols; having 98mm - 7.65mm barrels that came from Berlin to Oberndorf. Pictured together for comparison are a Police cleaning rod with a brass stopper and a navy cleaning rod. made LP.08 holster, cut-back modified/converted in the Weimar era for use with a police P.08, 4-inch barrel Luger. Pictured is an identical holster in the collection and additionally pictured with a 1908/13 commercial/military/police, no chamber date Luger, serial number 69859 and a separate view of 69859 serialized in the hidden commercial style. Regarding the use of the police cleaning rod in the field it can be used without the barrel affixed Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector. Please report any errors to me. Geit dem Frscheinen der ersten Uuslage im Febraur d. Zs. The added cover flap leather keeper strip is correctly attached with single line stitching. Approximately 3,000 produced. links[3]='http://www.marnamilitaria.com'; Bie der Reubearbeitung des Kap. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 9 ----------------------------------------------------------. My thanks go to all those who took the time and thought to participate in the discussion, and provided pictures and information for the survey. Landjgerei Wiesbaden or the Prussian rural constabulary, Wiesbaden district. Feedback. There are several markings on the holster. This has all matching numbers except for the proper grips and concentric ring, wooden base . Police arms had a Ulle diese Reuregelungen sind bei der Bearbeitung der zweiten Uuslage berudschtigt worden und haben in einigen Ubschnitten umsangreiche Uenderungen notwendig gemacht. 1935 and 1936 are the only known manufacturing dates for the TP or Technische Polizeischule property marked holsters. similar restriction. Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. Pictured is one such P08 police grip strap example, compared against variation 1 muzzle protector 2866, where no additional marks were added. Kriminalpolizei (detective force), Assigned to Einwohnerwehr marked E W B on pistol grips and rifle butts. Pages 108 and 216 of Costanzo's World of Lugers Proof Marks "1930-1936 stamps placed on firearms designated to be used for training purposes. In actuality, both above statements are correct, as the first statement that a majority of the cut-back LP.08 holsters used by the police are without a police cleaning rod is accurate, however, in cannot be denied that some, at least one, in this instance, was modified (unsuccessfully), specifically to carry the police cleaning rod as evidenced the very rare subject example. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L.H. The initials MG represent machine gun and the number being (page 108) 10th Training Corps or (page 216) with the 10 denoting the team number. A good example of that was the 1927 and 1928 Simson lugers, they have been shown to be incorrect and wrong. Das geistige Rstzeug fr seine Umtsausbung muss er so vllig besitzen, das ser jederzeit das Rechte trifft. (Schutzpolizei Berlin) 12022 Xd. HIPO as well as Gestapo had their informers. view 2 and RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, Akah made commercial holsters in the 1920s and 1930s with some used by the Germen Polizei. letters and numbers, and the information presented here addresses just A 108 is found in the upper right backside corner, what could be considered a Police serial marking? Collectors tend to err toward a variation 2 style ERMA made and marked muzzle protector that is, interestingly a different mechanical design than the above, variation 1 spring tension muzzle protector that attaches to the barrel with a one-step process by sliding, then rotating clockwise, over the barrel sight band/blade assembly, then released in detent, held in place by spring tension. of Stettin. Prussian Police (Schutzpolizei), 1922. Translated cover of The Police Pistols, Dresden manual. This Police holster definitely was used in two different locations or districts as indicated by the S. Hn. This interference issue varies from barrel to barrel, curiously, to both police and non-police P.08 9mm Lugers, depending on the width of the sight blade sliding base. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps. This Luger has all matching numbers. It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set, both signed by the original owner. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 4 ----------------------------------------------------------. The bases for these identifications are as follows: a. Command of maintenance/supply section, Wirtschaftsamt the Treaty of Versailles on German soil. Einwohnerwehr in 1921. Any aluminium based or black plastic based magazine (without serial number) would be correct for this gun. The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols book publications picture and describe cut-back artillery Luger holsters as specifically modified for police Luger carry, there are no Luger book published, period pictures of German Police with a cut-back artillery Luger holster, nor with any standard, non-police P.08 type Luger holster. Caliber 7.65mm - 4.75" barrel. I have several lugers and Broomhandles with the "HZaJt18" marking on them. The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. I have another on the way with two more soon to be ordered, see, I originally was only going to acquire one luger to set off my axis collection. 19-130 text caption Sturgess specifically states that the cleaning rod pouch of the pictured cut-back artillery to police holster, currently of the LOB collection, was modified to carry the police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, which is inaccurate as the police brass stop cleaning rod with a seven ring wooden handle cannot be inserted past the added, upper leather cleaning rod pouch section, securing cover flap brass stud as the bell-shaped, rather large 13 m/m diameter brass stopper, permanently affixed to the much smaller 5.5 m/m diameter of the steel cleaning rod, engages the protruding internal metal retaining lip of the added cleaning rod pouch brass stud. Checkered walnut grips are not numbered. Prussian Police (Schutzpolizei) by directive 5 April 1922. This information came from a small book I have named The Luger Handbook by Aarron Davis. The Fraktur font originated sometime in the 16th century and was then widely used on most documents and written works. In fact, the majority of the pistols having a SN between 1v and 524v were produced and proofed in Berlin. The eagle in front is the type of the Weimar era and was in use from 1919 - 1939. 19-130 text caption picturing a cut-back LP.08 holster: that the converted LP.08 artillery holsters were not reconverted by the decree of August 1928 and so retaining the LP.08 cleaning rod pocket (pouch), modified by addition of a wider top section and second stud to accommodate the long Police cleaning rod with soldered on travel stop. There are other, more obscure WW1 or Weimar era police organization affiliated belt buckles with unique design emblems. Polizei-Praesident Berlin=The Royal Police-President Berlin. There was an identical Zeitz marked holster offered for $695 on the web site of a major Luger retailer, however, stating in the description, specifically, that the holster is a WW2 police issue: ">WW2 police issue. Holster is also marked Bahnschutz RBD Halle (S) Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster vs. the regulation positioned and angled location of Police Luger ? (communications training 19-130. SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. Pictured for comparison are two different examples of Artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes or dimensions. Decoding these proof marks is very useful in determining the age and history of the gun. 7: 505: . Simply a guard at a warehouse. Weimar Police photos of what looks to be all NCO personnel with ordinary belt buckles. Pictured is a 4mm; excellent bore, 5'' barrel insert for Luger pistols chambered in .30 Luger (7.65mm Parabellum) with loading tool; view 1, view 2, view 3. Opening the loading tool cover flap reveals the original brown leather. an order of the Prussian Ministry of the Interior dated April 15, 1919, to If you are looking for something similarly long, RIA has a Farsi-marked Persian contract Mauser Artillery Luger with an 8-inch barrel. German military and police units, one can sometimes derive some The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, however, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. Only two are identified in publications and only partial pictures. $4,495.00 $4,045.00 Compare This was removed and the hilt was shortened accordingly. (he Americans actually did the same thing as most American Regiments did not have a "I" Company, but skipped from "H" Company to "J" Company) Constanzo got this one completely wrong, and the marking is definitely from the late '30's not '20s, and please disregard nonsense about the building # assignments. This is notwithstanding the fact that there were obviously less Weimar Era Police officers than NCO Police personnel. If you collect Lugers, you need this book. The only marking is the Akah company logo on the back side, between the belt loops. As a result, the young police officers are faced with new tasks, which prove to be all the more difficult since the new police not only ward off the risks of political and economic struggles, but above all are supposed to be brought back to their actual previous activities. The chemical is a yellowish clear liquid with a consistency expected of a light oil. 1918 Dingeldey & Werres-Berlin cut-back artillery to police holster, Luger holstered s/n 5008. Over all good condition. Still, page 174 Figure 28b describes and pictures a P.08 barrel installed ERMA muzzle protector in the text caption that states: This device fits over the muzzle of a Luger and reportedly protects the barrel rifling at the muzzle from the cleaning rod shaft. (113P) DWM 1920 Police Rework Luger Pistol . My question, please forive if its too absurd, is" Why weren't the Riff Contract pistols ordered from the Simson Co.?" Receiver proof, some reworked 1920 Police and Military Lugers 32. Luger Extractor Marks Luger Safety Marks Luger Magazine Marks Light sheet steel body with crimped edges. And when new information comes out, sometimes "old" information is shown to be wrong. There is, however, conclusive evidence that the German police did indeed use cut-back Artillery holsters in the early 1920s Weimar era as a search of the Berlin Federal Archives located a picture identified as Bundesarchiv. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in links[5]='http://www.wwiidaggers.com'; By signing up you agree to Guns.com's When is the right time to sell back 9780985833503 Police Lugers: German Police Lugers and Their Markings 1918-1958? This gives him the inner support, the calm appearance in the deficiency, the sure success and thus an increased enthusiasm and love for the profession. The original brown leather holster was probably dyed/swabbed black, at this time, to conform to regulations. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in Mauser or the Police HQ in Berlin? Brown Shirts]) eventually joined the Nazi Party. The subject WaAJL16 stamped Police style holster is the first one of two noted examples with the second WaAJL16 stamped holster being a P.08 Army style holster which has generated much collector speculation and opining. Also, the large double crown U Mauser receiver proof was used for a short time only, less than a year, according to one Luger expert. Clearly identified on the facing edge holster spine is a period artillery Luger cleaning rod pouch with brass stud and leather slit cover flap.

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