The crossed cannons escutcheon on the right side and other government markings should be present, albeit often faint from years of wear. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it In addition, when the carbines were overhauled, the initials of the ordnance facility were often stamped on the stock. Such markings can be sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect. Glad to hear it is staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain shark-free! While a competently restored carbine can sometimes be a bit difficult to spot, there are several tell-tale signs that often reveal restoration work. None of the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen (IP) were accepted by Ordnance. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. for use with a select fire mechanism. If you own one of these carbines and would like to assist with the A. It was normally placed on the front of the handgrip (above right) but sometimes appears on the bottom of the handgrip. Serial numbered receivers that failed to pass inspection were set aside as rejects if the defect(s) could not be brought up to minimum standards. The stock seems to be varnished. fire carbines like the M2's. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. The hammer is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 89). There is virtually no color distinction between standard for all type V M2 pot belly stocks by all manufacturers. The Type I rear sight is marked with a partial S on the left which is consistent with Saginaw SG and others (page 29). I have a high wood Rockola on my early IP. Here is my $50 Saginaw S'G' - IP Carbine. Front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons Cartouche on right mid stock face. The absence of the letter P in either of these locations is fairly common. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. If, after a detailed inspection, the M1 carbine appears to be as purported, and is priced reasonably, it is probably a good purchase. Carbines have been, and still are, This change was not implemented in conjunction with the longer barrel channel Doing so may alter to manufacture barrels. be complicated. These marks have been oiled. If you choose to do so please Irwin-Pedersendid not produce barrels. Garand rifles, though some could be used to replicate or forge the markings on the U.S. Carbines. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON / 1767065. The key parts to observe are the rear sight, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1 This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. Wood being wood, it is subject to cracks. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. marked: AI,SI, JI,or KI(INLAND) M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (bayonet lug) Used G.I. Mechanics:The action functions correctly. The rifle comes with a 15 round magazine. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B There are four basic types of markings which may or may not be found on the U.S. Carbine stocks. The magazine release is not an SG part. or may have other markings. Occasionally, an L type sight might cover most of the circular punch marks so close examination should be performed to ascertain whether these exist. You certain the receiver is S'G'? The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. CARBINE / CAL. The markings on the A circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle stamped in the bottom of the handgrip (above left) was sometimes used as a proof mark at several prime contractor facilities to indicate a completed carbine The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. I bought it a few years ago from another Calguns member. / GENERAL MOTORS / 1-44 and P. Birch. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. The serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows. Irwin-Pederson (IP) secured a contract to produce M1 Carbines for the war effort in March of 1942. DIV. Copyright 2011-2023 All Rights Reserved. Occasionally the Ordnance rebuild mark was placed on the right side of the stock. Saginaw Carbines made at the Irwin-Pedersen Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . I recently purchased an M1 carbine manufactured by Quality Hardware that has a bayonet lug. designated it as a replacement. S&W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem? Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. Features include a 18" 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine. Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments It appears the bridge may have been eliminated on type III stocks If inventory ran out it could shut down production. I've had this M1 Carbine for about 20-years. Box, Paperwork & Accessories:There is no magazine. So it's possible one of the 1,706,436 carbine barrels Underwood made got put on that Carbine. The left side of the receiver (under the wood) has a tooling hole at the rear. Some stock It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. Because of this popularity, testing and use of the carbine for purposes well beyond it's original design became fairly common. The new serial number was hand stamped on top of the receiver behind the rear sight, in the vicinity of the prior serial number. This website intentionally omits the information on which manufacturer used which inspection marks, crossed cannons, their size, and their spatial relationship to one another. Barrel and receiver marked with Inland (barrel manufacturer for Saginaw) 4-44. It's listed with Inland. Used early in production. The most prominent marks are on the handguard. This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. Receiver or barrel or? Saginaw SG took over the Irwin-Pedersen facility in April of 1943 and produced M1 Carbines using Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG parts. No import markings. CARBINE / CAL. There are some exceptions to this rule as several prime contractors are known to have utilized parts made for other prime contractors. A total of over 6.1 million M1 carbines of various models were manufactured, making it the most produced small arm for the American military during World War II (compared with The M1 Carbine: 10 Little-Known FactsThe M1 Carbine as a round is ballistically effective. Remember, the M1 Carbine was designed to replace the M1911A1 in the hands of support troops, machine gunners, etc., whoever If the Carbine was so bad, why did Audie Murphy use one? Americans most-decorated soldier of World War II, Lt. It was the chosen weapon of our enemy. More items These receivers were purchased by Winchester. Irwin-Pedersenhad assembled only 3,542 guns at the time, none of which were accepted by the government. The stock was also replaced and has no proof markings. Only Irwin-Pedersen & Saginaw SG receivers were produced with a tooling hole (page 22 of Craig Rieschs book, U.S. M1 Carbines Wartime Production 7th Edition). 4 1/16" (approx.) Lighter colored wood such as birch was often stained darker before being finished. The stocks were also stamped with code markings which are normally found inside of the sling recess on the left side. All things being equal, the value of an original carbine is greater than even the best restoration. It shows light discoloration & spots of soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes on the metal. A little history of Saginaw (S.G.) and its carbines. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local Usually located on the left side of the stock, but sometimes found on the right side. Normally, sanded and refinished wood is quite easy to spot. Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. After WWII Birch became much more common. The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. found to indicate this was done by the original manufacturer(s). It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. I have some other shooters so this one has been a safe queen. I have one, 1776xxx. If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. The bore and rifling are nice and shiny with just a hint of light pitting near the muzzle. The magazine shows scrapes, thin scratches, and discoloration from oxidation. Box, Paperwork & Accessories:The rifle has a canvas sling attached. When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. XA27, XA62, XD14). The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 3 43 and P. Chambered in .30 cal, A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. and appears to have come later. Bore Condition:The bore is bright; semi bright at the muzzle. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. receivers were brought back online and completed (i.e. It is in about Good condition. Sent the OP some pictures of an all S'G' I had listed here last year, didn't get a single request for pictures from members, and asked two questions but had no reply. The trigger group is marked SG on the right rear which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 78). 3 3/16" (approx.) Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 SOLD - Factory Chrome Walther PPK - Rare. marked: JM, Amco, MMQ,J.M.Q. Assuming the parts appear to be consistent with the vintage of the carbine, the markings should be closely examined. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines and history here: Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. Make:Irwin-Pedersen. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. Barrel Date: March, 1943 Caliber: .30 Carbine Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine Markings: They put on the Mauser type rear sight and milled the original rear sight pedestal to reduce glare. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. Sights / Optics:The front sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 9 43 and P. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. Model:M1 Carbine. All matching even the trigger group. It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? Any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG after they took over the contract. Because of it's size and weight the M1 carbine became fairly popular with many GI's. We hope to raise awareness and understanding for the collector community, as well as encourage new collectors to join the hobby. Should you own one of these carbines we may have additional information on your carbine that is beyond the scope of this website. Do you have anything on safeties? Commercially manufactured modern day replicas of the dies/stamps used for markings are often used in "restoration". Which Saginaw? The latter looks like what you find on captured and refurbished German P-38 pistols that were made matching by manual application of an electric scribe. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. annual growth rings, giving Birch a somewhat dull, uniform appearance. Color can sometimes have a grey, purple, or reddish cast. The left stock is stamped M-U where the sling is inserted, apparently meaning Marlin Firearms made the stock; walnut with a high wood, two rivet handguard. Got 1 ! GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in the past before my family member acquiredit. The smooth push button safety is marked E-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 95 & 185). with Inlands war effort. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation To separate the production of each plant the prime symbol () was marked after the SG on the receivers of the Grand Rapids carbines. The U.S. Carbine Caliber .30 Stock Group Wood & Finish Walnut Birch The two most common types of wood used for Caliber .30 Carbine stocks and handguards were American Black Walnut and Yellow Birch. Product Information & Specs. Carbines with a Serial Number above 8 million. I do know it is a really nice M1 and I would not part with it. Free shipping for many products! The rebuilt rifles are identifiable from the markings left by the companies that rebuilt them. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. As solutions to old problems were learned, some of the same Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). The M1 Garand was a fantastic rifle. It was reliable, accurate, and powerful. And it was a semi-automatic service rifle in a time when almost every powerful nation was issuing bolt action rifles. If you want to find out more, heres a video that discusses why it was such a great rifle: It's the first I've seen. The elimination of the bridge strengthening the stock forward of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks. http://m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html, http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html. Yes this is correct 100% stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https://app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. Older Post The receiver, bolt, and trigger group have been refinished. No one, so far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet. The example on the bottom of the handgrip (below) shows the circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle over stamped with an Ordnance rebuild P. Carbines having been rebuilt more than once will sometimes have We have a Click Here to view our Gunbroker page! S-C [stamped sideways] O-S [in curved type] SI SL [circled] Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. Black Cherry darken with age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut. The Grand Rapids facility stopped carbine production on 01 Jan 1944 but continued to make receivers and trigger housings which were sent to the Saginaw Plant for assembly.

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